Раны Господа после Его Воскресения Опции

[Сергей Сур]

Всем доброго дня!

Наткнулся в Интернете на книгу, написанную в 1887 году священником Академии Новой Церкви Nathan Clark Burnham "Раздельные степени в последовательном и одновременном порядке, иллюстрированные диаграммами". Discrete Degrees

И в конце книги есть такие слова:

"...8. FROM the foregoing it is clear that in the risen body there could be no wounds. The LORD indeed said to Thomas (possibly in accommodation to his idea) "Reach hither thy finger and see My hands and reach hither thy hand and put it into My side and be not faithless but believing." And Thomas answered and said unto Him, "My LORD and my God"." (John xx, 27, 28.)
The reason which the LORD Himself gives for the belief of Thomas is that he saw the LORD: "Thomas because thou hast seen Me thou hast believed." It may be asked, Was there not an appearance of wounds to Thomas? It would rather seem that although he was at first in doubt but well disposed, yet on seeing the LORD Himself and feeling the potent influx of the Divine emanating from His Glorified Body, he was moved to acknowledgement deeper and holier than could arise from an appearance of wounds. When Thomas said "Except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails I will not believe" he represented the sensual degree in a crude and unenlightened state. But "After eight days" (John xx, 26) on seeing and hearing the LORD Himself and answering "My LORD and my God" he represents the sensual greatly improved. It may be asked, Why is the Scripture so written that the reader may erroneously infer the existence of wounds? This is among the deep things of Providence concerning the Word, one of which is that its literal sense may be accommodated to such as are in appearances and fallacies. While considering whether there was an appearance of wounds note well the reason of the LORD'S manifestation of Himself, showing His hands and feet, which was to teach that He was not a spirit merely but a man; though His natural body was wholly Divine. (TCR 109; HH 316; LJ 21.)…

8. In the Risen Body there were no wounds. Whether there was an appearance of wounds is a matter of opinion..."

То есть, выходит, что Прославленное Тело Господа перед Его Вознесением не имело ран. (особенно если ещё учесть, что означают «раны» в Слове (см. Индекс Тайн Небесных))

[Виталий Сардыко]

Ну как же "даже приблизительно" не было (эта идея, в той или иной степени присутствует у каждого из нас), когда ты, не понимая, куда же могло исчезнуть материальное тело Господа, чтобы выпутаться из этой головоломки придумываешь некое "Божественное материальное", которое теперь субстанциональное, тогда как Латинское Слово однозначно утверждает, что Божественное субстанциональное Господа (после Его Прославления) совершенно не материальное.

Серёга, у меня нет головаломки, материальное тело Господа стало Божественным или было прославлено до самых крайних степеней смотри цитаты взятые через Kempton. Для меня тут нет препятствий. Это ты не можешь понять как материальное может быть Прославлено и вознесено не Небо, смотри цитату:

therefore He alone rose into heaven with the body also так что как видишь изначально всё было верно Господь полностью Божественен в том числе и в материальной степени, хотя она уже не материальна в буквальном смысле этого термина поскольку относится к Господу.

Пусть и примитивно, но пока такое представление мне очень многое объясняет. Даже другие планеты – это Его «материальное», но не в прямом земном понимании, а из этого нужно вычленять тленное. Такая вот она, женская логика…

Людмила, вы так говорите как-будто мы тут всё понимаем и типа гуру, да мы сами тут разбираться пытаемся



P.S Вот цитаты из ТЗ о том что Господь сделал Божественным все свои степени вплоть до самых крайних, извините на английском переводить некогда, кто хочет может использовать Google переводчик:

AE 581:12
The sensual, which is the ultimate of the intellectual life, is signified also by:
The stretched serpent (Isa. 27:1; Job 26:13);
also by:
The serpent into which the rod of Moses was changed (Exod. 4:3, 4; 7:9-12). (See Arcana Coelestia, n. 6949, 7293.) Again, sensual things which are the ultimates of man's life are signified by:
The fiery serpents sent among the people who wished to return to Egypt (Num. 21:6);
while the healing of the bite of such serpents by the Lord's Divine sensual is signified by:
The brazen serpent set upon a standard, by looking upon which they revived (Num. 21:5-9). The expression, the Lord's Divine sensual, is used, because the Lord when He was in the world glorified, that is, made Divine, His whole Human even to its ultimates, as can be seen from the fact that He left nothing in the sepulcher, and that He said to the disciples:
That He hath bones and flesh, which a spirit doth not have (Luke 24:39, 40). The ultimate sensual, which was also glorified or made Divine by the Lord, is signified by that "brazen serpent" set upon a standard, respecting which the Lord Himself thus spake in John:
As Moses lifted up the serpent, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth in Him may not perish, but may have eternal life (3:14, 15).[/i]


AC 1729:2
It is the Lord's Human Essence which is called the "Son of man;" which also, after the combats of the temptations, was united to His Divine Essence, so that it was itself also made Jehovah; wherefore in heaven they know no other Jehovah the Father than the Lord (see above, n. 15). With the Lord all is Jehovah; not only His internal and His interior man, but also the external man, and the very body; and therefore He alone rose into heaven with the body also; as is sufficiently evident in the Gospels, where His resurrection is treated of; as also from the words of the Lord Himself:
Wherefore do thoughts arise in your hearts? See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; handle Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see Me have. And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet (Luke 24:38-40). [/i]

HH 316. The Lord rose again not as to His spirit alone but also as to His body, because when He was in the world He glorified His whole Human, that is, made it Divine; for His soul which He had from the Father was of Itself the very Divine, while His body became a likeness of the soul, that is, of the Father, thus also Divine. This is why He, differently from any man, rose again as to both;# and this He made manifest to the disciples (who when they saw Him believed that they saw a spirit), by saying:
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; handle Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye behold Me having (Luke 24:36-39);
indicating thereby that He was a man both in respect to His spirit and in respect to His body.

AC 5078:2 The reason why here and in the following verses of this chapter the external sensuous things of both kinds are treated of in the internal sense is that in the previous chapter the subject treated of was the Lord, and how He glorified or made Divine the interiors of His natural; here therefore the subject treated of is the Lord, and how He glorified or made Divine the exteriors of His natural. The exteriors of the natural are what are properly called the bodily things, or the sensuous things of both kinds together with their recipient organs, for these together constitute what is called the body (as shown above, n. 5077). The Lord made the very bodily in Himself Divine, both its sensuous things and their recipient organs; and He therefore rose again from the sepulcher with His body, and likewise after His resurrection said to the disciples:
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; feel Me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have (Luke 24:39).

AC 10825. That the Lord was conceived of Jehovah the Father and thus was God from conception, is known in the church, and also that He rose again with His whole body, for He left nothing in the sepulchre. Of this He also afterward confirmed His disciples, saying, "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; feel Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see Me have" (Luke 24:39). And although He was a man in respect to the flesh and bones, He nevertheless entered in through closed doors; and after He had manifested Himself He again became invisible (John 20:19, 26; Luke 24:31). It is different with every man, for a man rises again only as to the spirit, and not as to the body; and therefore when He said that He is not a spirit, He said that He is not like any other man. From this it is now evident that in the Lord the Human also is Divine.


AC 10738:5 As such was the union, or such the one, in the Lord, He therefore rose again not only as to the soul; but, differently from any man, as to the body which He glorified in the world. He also instructed the disciples about this, saying, "Feel Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see Me have."

AC 10125:4

For this reason the Lord took up into heaven all His Human glorified, that is, made Divine from Himself, and left nothing of it in the sepulchre, otherwise than is the case with man. That the Lord glorified His very body even to its ultimates which are the bones and the flesh, the Lord also manifested to His disciples, saying, "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Feel Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see Me have" (Luke 24:39); and yet He entered through doors that were shut, and after He had manifested Himself became invisible (John 20:19; Luke 24:31). These things have been said in order that it may be known that the Lord alone as to His Human was the Anointed of Jehovah; not indeed anointed with oil, but with the Divine good itself of the Divine love, which is signified by "oil," and which was represented by anointing (n. 9954).