Раны Господа после Его Воскресения Опции

[Сергей Сур]

Всем доброго дня!

Наткнулся в Интернете на книгу, написанную в 1887 году священником Академии Новой Церкви Nathan Clark Burnham "Раздельные степени в последовательном и одновременном порядке, иллюстрированные диаграммами". Discrete Degrees

И в конце книги есть такие слова:

"...8. FROM the foregoing it is clear that in the risen body there could be no wounds. The LORD indeed said to Thomas (possibly in accommodation to his idea) "Reach hither thy finger and see My hands and reach hither thy hand and put it into My side and be not faithless but believing." And Thomas answered and said unto Him, "My LORD and my God"." (John xx, 27, 28.)
The reason which the LORD Himself gives for the belief of Thomas is that he saw the LORD: "Thomas because thou hast seen Me thou hast believed." It may be asked, Was there not an appearance of wounds to Thomas? It would rather seem that although he was at first in doubt but well disposed, yet on seeing the LORD Himself and feeling the potent influx of the Divine emanating from His Glorified Body, he was moved to acknowledgement deeper and holier than could arise from an appearance of wounds. When Thomas said "Except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails I will not believe" he represented the sensual degree in a crude and unenlightened state. But "After eight days" (John xx, 26) on seeing and hearing the LORD Himself and answering "My LORD and my God" he represents the sensual greatly improved. It may be asked, Why is the Scripture so written that the reader may erroneously infer the existence of wounds? This is among the deep things of Providence concerning the Word, one of which is that its literal sense may be accommodated to such as are in appearances and fallacies. While considering whether there was an appearance of wounds note well the reason of the LORD'S manifestation of Himself, showing His hands and feet, which was to teach that He was not a spirit merely but a man; though His natural body was wholly Divine. (TCR 109; HH 316; LJ 21.)…

8. In the Risen Body there were no wounds. Whether there was an appearance of wounds is a matter of opinion..."

То есть, выходит, что Прославленное Тело Господа перед Его Вознесением не имело ран. (особенно если ещё учесть, что означают «раны» в Слове (см. Индекс Тайн Небесных))

[Виталий Сардыко]

Сергей, ты ломишься в открытую дверь, никто не говорит что у Господа осталась материальная степень тем более от Марии, ты "сам с собой ведёшь беседу" и не читаешь что писалось.

Речь о том, что у Господа и Его тела после воскресения ВСЕ степени Божественны и когда речь о материальной степени то когда говорится о Господе то речь уже не о материальности в простом человеческом смысле, а о Божественной Субстанциональности или Божественном Субстанциональном Теле Господа которое имело настолько все степени, что Господь мог есть даже материальную рыбу и мёд, то есть Господь в отличие от ангела был и есть Человеком в полном смысле этого слова:


AE 1112:3

It has been said that one Divine by itself is not possible, but that there must be a trine, and that this trine is one God in essence and in Person. It may now be asked, What trine God had before the Lord took on the Human and made it Divine in the world? God was then likewise Man, and had the Divine, the Divine Human, and the Divine proceeding, that is, the Divine being [esse], the Divine manifesting [existere], and the Divine proceeding [procedere], for as has been said, God without a trine is not possible. But the Divine Human was not then Divine even to ultimates. Ultimates are meant by "flesh and bones," and even these were made Divine by the Lord when He was in the world. This was what was added, and this is the Divine Human that God now has. This, too, may be illustrated by this comparison. Every angel is a man, having a soul, having a body, and having a proceeding; and yet this does not make him a complete man, for he does not have flesh and bones as a man in the world has.

[4]
That the Lord made His Human Divine even to its ultimates, which are called "flesh and bones," He made clear to the disciples, who when they saw Him believed that they saw a spirit, saying:
See My hands and My feet that it is I Myself; feel Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see Me have (Luke 24:39). From this it follows that now God is Man more than an angel is. Comparison has been made with an angel and with a man; yet it must be understood that God has life in Himself, while an angel does not have life in himself, for he is a recipient of life. That the Lord as to both the Divine and the Divine Human, is life in Himself He teaches in John:
As the Father hath life in Himself so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:26). Here by "Father" the Lord means the Divine in Himself; for He says elsewhere that the Father is in Him, and that the Father and He are one.


Как видишь Господь Человек в полноте как любой кто живёт сейчас в мире и этим Человечность Господа выше любой Ангельской и поэтому Господь мог спокойно есть и материальную рыбу и мёд и поэтому же Он не является духом как Он сказал ученикам.


AE 619:[15]

In Luke:
Jesus said to the disciples, who believed that they saw a spirit, See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; feel of Me and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see Me having. Then He said to them, Have ye here anything to eat? And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and of a honeycomb. And He took it and did eat it before them (Luke 24:39, 41-43). From the series of these words regarded in the spiritual sense it is very evident that "honeycomb" and "honey" signify natural good, for the Lord disclosed to His disciples that He had glorified or made Divine His whole Human, even to its natural and sensual; this is signified by "hands and feet" and by "flesh and bones," which they saw and felt, "hands and feet" signifying the ultimate of man which is called the natural, "flesh" its good, and "bones" its truth; for all things that are in the human body correspond to spiritual things, the "flesh" corresponding to the good of the natural man, and the "bones" to its truths. (On this correspondence, see in the work on Heaven and Hell, n. 87-102.) And this the Lord confirmed by eating before the disciples of the broiled fish and honeycomb; "the broiled fish" signifying the truth of good of the natural and sensual man, and "the honeycomb," the good of the truth of the same. The Lord, therefore, by letting them feel of Him, showed and confirmed that His whole Human, even to its ultimates, was glorified, that is, made Divine; and this He showed, too, by the eating, in that "He ate before them a piece of broiled fish and of a honeycomb."

[Сергей Сур]

никто не говорит что у Господа осталась материальная степень тем более от Марии,

Ты постоянно об этом говоришь, придумав "Божественное материальное". И не может быть "тем более", так как материальное было только и исключительно от одной Марии.

Речь о том, что у Господа и Его тела после воскресения ВСЕ степени Божественны и когда речь о материальной степени то когда говорится о Господе то речь уже не о материальности в простом человеческом смысле, а о Божественной Субстанциональности или Божественном Субстанциональном Теле Господа которое имело настолько все степени, что Господь мог есть даже материальную рыбу и мёд, то есть Господь в отличие от ангела был и есть Человеком в полном смысле этого слова:

Нет "материальной степени". Есть Небесная, Духовная и Природная. Ты утверждаешь, что даже после Своего Вознесения Господь в состоянии есть "материальные" рыбу и мёд.

Ваша проблема с Талком, что вы к идее материальности двигаетесь снизу от чувственного, а двигаться надо сверху от духовного,

Именно таким образом (от духовного в природное), и никаким иным, Талк и двигался, и поэтому именно это правильное движение даёт постижение (более или менее затемнённое) для природного сознания тайн Боговоплощения.